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Re: give the newbie the full story on ELK and ARROWplease



We probably disagree . . . . years ago we would hear "picket fence" as the 
guys would call it from an FM mobile stations on two meters into the 
repeater . . .  or simplex . . . . the point I have been attempting to make 
:  I had not seen any comment until Andy responded to my attempt to make 
folks aware of CP or elliptical ( I will not split hairs  ) and despite 
using a vertical they still generate deep fades by being linear polarized . 
. .  that is my point give the newbie the full story . . . which has been 
sadly missing from the advocacy of Arrow vs. Elk . . . .

Jim W9VNE
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Andrew Glasbrenner" <glasbrenner@mindspring.com>
To: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy@cinci.rr.com>; <amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Sent: Sunday, December 28, 2008 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] give the newbie the full story on ELK and ARROW 
please


>
>>
>> Arrow and Elk are LINEARLY  polarized antennas . . . . the 17,000 mph 
>> moving satellite is throwing off CIRCULAR  polarized RF energy . . . 
>> please SUBTRACT  3 db or more of gain from your Elk or Arrow when 
>> receiving the satellite's signal . . . some still do not understand this 
>> concept and never will .  . . ignorance is bliss . . . .
>>
>
> This is not always correct. AO-27 and SO-50 both use linear antennas for 
> their downlink transmitters. Even with AO-51, the downlink signal is 
> likely to be elliptical most of the time depending on squint angles. The 
> point to take away from this is when using a handheld yagi, always try to 
> peak the signals on both uplink and downlink by rotating the antenna. The 
> up to ~20db of potential mismatch is more important than the gain of the 
> antenna. All the current FM satellites use linear whips for the uplink 
> receivers; peaking the polarity from worst case to best case is like 
> adding a 500 watt amplifier to your 5 watt HT. To do this on transmit 
> requires full duplex.
>
> Here's another way to look at it. After the launch of AO-51, we heard 
> several people say AO-27 seemed to have a stronger signal. AO-27 typically 
> ran a 500mw downlink, and AO-51 ran similar power. Users with handheld 
> yagis or whips who matched polarity gained 3 db on AO-27 reception as 
> compared with AO-51 (assuming a close to circular signal from AO-51). 
> That's the same as effectively doubling the downlink power on AO-27.
>
> Sorry to impede anyone's bliss.
>
> 73, Drew KO4MA
> 

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