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Re: Fw: ELK or ARROW



Has anyone played with insulating the Arrow elements from the boom?  It
shouldn't be too hard to do.

73,
Joe kk0sd

-----Original Message-----
From: amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org [mailto:amsat-bb-bounces@amsat.org] On
Behalf Of Jim Danehy
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 8:33 PM
To: amsat-bb@amsat.org
Subject: [amsat-bb] Fw: ELK or ARROW


  there is the old adage that you get what you pay for . . . why buy a 
poorly designed antenna that does not work very well
> ?
>
> If you have a 5 element  yagi that only produces 4 dbi you are not getting

> what you paid for . . . most 2 element yagis would out perform that 
> statistic . . . a 5 element yagi should be at least 9 db + or 10 db dbd 
> (dipole ) not isotropic  . . . . there is something that is called 
> MERCHANTABILITY . . .i.e., an IMPLIED WARRANTY  that you are getting at 
> least the minimum for your money . . .
> 4 dbi for an Arrow is way off base . . .  so it is not just ; you can not 
> afford a Cadillac but you are not even getting a Ford or Chevy  . .  i.e.,

> the gain of a 5 element yagi on 435 mhz . . .  that is the issue, not cost

> alone . . . . . . same comments apply to the ELK but I have attempted to 
> make the point that there is a minimum performance for a certain number of

> elements that is pretty OBJECTIVE and when it is not met  . . . . well 
> that is my point . . . these two antennas have shown to some testers that 
> they do not measure up to the minimum EXPECTATIONS . . .unfortunately that

> is acceptable to some  . . . . then it becomes acceptable to many . . . 
> and objectivity is abandoned . . .
>
> Jim W9VNE
>
>
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Trey Brown" <palintheus@gmail.com>
> To: "Jim Danehy" <jdanehy@cinci.rr.com>
> Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2008 6:39 PM
> Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] ELK or ARROW
>
>
>> Thanks for the comments. Realize, though, that not everyone wants or
>> can afford to have the Cadillac.
>>
>>
>> On Sat, Dec 27, 2008 at 4:06 PM, Jim Danehy <jdanehy@cinci.rr.com> wrote:
>>> the Arrow antenna has been critiqued by Kent Britain, WA5VJB
>>>
>>> http://wa5vjb.com/references/Cheap%20Antennas-LEOs.pdf
>>>
>>> he says that some have measured the Arrow for gain on 435 mhz @ 4 dbi 
>>> (isotropic) . . . . and that further analysis showed that for the 
>>> element lengths used on 435 mhz that it peaks at 457 mhz and not 435 mhz

>>> . . . Kent is a well respected VHF/UHF antenna person who has plenty of 
>>> credibility . . .
>>>
>>> Kent opines that the Arrow, as built does not have its elements 
>>> insulated from the boom. It uses dimensions for insulated elements . . .

>>> so much for the Arrow . . . .
>>>
>>> Now for the ELK  : a local friend of mine owns an Arrow and he uses it 
>>> successfully. He bought an ELK and attempted to compare the Arrow and 
>>> the ELK . . . . he could not make an across town QSO on 435 mhz from his

>>> second story window with the ELK , so he sent the ELK back for a refund 
>>> .
>>>
>>> I have worked and exchanged QSLs with several hundred satellite users . 
>>> . .the majority of the folks that have worked and QSLed me (close to 250

>>> + ) have been using either the Arrow or ELK based upon the information 
>>> on their cards. So they are popular. Are they optimum ? A lot of 
>>> anecdotal information would seem to say NO . . .
>>>
>>> Thirty-five years ago I worked Oscar 6 with a homebrew 2 mtr yagi that 
>>> probably was worse than either the Arrow or Elk but I worked YV and KL7 
>>> from Indiana on CW with about 15 watts to the 3 elements which my XYL 
>>> waved around at my directions . . . not any more . . .what do I use 
>>> these days : a pair of circular polarity yagis on 10 foot booms 
>>> manufactured by M Square . . . .
>>>
>>> Folks ask what should they buy ? Maybe a Ford or maybe a Chevy . . . 
>>> neither is a Cadillac . . . .
>>>
>>> Jim W9VNE
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Sent via AMSAT-BB@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
>>> Not an AMSAT-NA member? Join now to support the amateur satellite 
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>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> Trey -- N5THX
>>
>> They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
>> safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety.
>> - Benjamin Franklin
>>
> 

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