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Re: Helix vs. loopers



Hi Clare,

Thanks for the reference on Helix antennas.  A few questions on details that 
aren't covered on the website.  I'm thinking of a 1.2 ghz model...

1.  Where is the diameter of the helix measured to - inside, center, or 
outside edge of the wire?
2.  How much does it matter what type/size of wire used?  (I'm thinking of 
the cheap / light aluminum wire used for ground runs, or #10 copper house 
wire.)
3.  How to match the 12.5 degree pitch...  I'm thinking to make a diagonal 
line on a piece of paper, and roll it around the coil form, laying the wire 
on top.  Yes?
4.  Matching section...  Not covered.  I recall a few years ago you had a 
rather innovative one.  Any developments in that area?  What do you 
recommend?

Greg  KO6TH


----Original Message Follows----
From: "Clare Fowler" <lcfowler@magma.ca>
To: "amsat-bb" <amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Helix vs. loopers
Date: Tue, 8 May 2007 20:52:03 -0400

Helix antennas can be constructed to provide usefull gain with up to 40
turns if designed with a circumference of one wavelength and a pitch angle
of 12.5 degrees.
In my direct experimental comparison measurements outlined
in the May/June 2006 AMSAT Journal the max gain formulas used on
various web sites and amateur publications, for as yet some undetermined
reason, do not provide the predicted gain, but had less gain and increased
side lobes. The longer the antenna the greater the deviation from that
predicted.

As stated previously feed line losses are a big problem for many hams
at 1.2 GHz. My array (VE3NPC) is fed with 5 ft of RG/8U in the shack, 35
feet of 1/2 in hard line and another 5 feet of flexible RG/8U at the
antenna.

I have 10 watts from my FT-736 and have never measured what it is at the
antenna.  It perfomed very well on AO-40 where I logged 832 SSB QSO's in
mode L/S.

For helix design dimensions go to http://www.rac.ca
and select calculators, helix antennas and then Kraus.
(not Emerson as those max gain dimensions result in a
poorly performing antenna).

Clare VE3NPC

----- Original Message -----
From: "kc6uqh" <kc6uqh@cox.net>
To: <w7lrd@comcast.net>; "Steve Raas" <sraas@optonline.net>;
<amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 12:46 AM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Helix vs. loopers


 > You loose 3 dB linear to circular, circular to circular of the same
 > rotation
 > is best for satellite work eliminating fading during rotational shift and
 > multipath.
 > I agree about diminishing returns on a Helix. I have phased two for 
linear
 > polorization ( counter rotating 1.2 GHz). The BBQ grill is a simple
 > solution, 18 dBi 1.2 and 24 dBi 2.4 with a small form factor, I use it
 > portable and it fits in my car. If you have room for a 12' boom why not a
 > 10' TVRO dish? You could go portable with a Semi Truck!
 >
 > Art
 > ----- Original Message -----
 > From: <w7lrd@comcast.net>
 > To: "Steve Raas" <sraas@optonline.net>; <amsat-bb@amsat.org>
 > Sent: Monday, May 07, 2007 9:13 PM
 > Subject: [amsat-bb] Re: Helix vs. loopers
 >
 >
 >> Steve and all
 >> I believe simply lengthing a helix will reach a point of diminishing
 >> returns.  It would be better to stack a couple or even four twenty or so
 >> turn turn helix antennas (from VE3NPC).  You could  with proper phasing
 >> generate a CP signal from a couple of loopers.  I just haven't heard of
 >> anyone doing that, though it looks good on paper.
 >> 73 Bob W7LRD
 >> Seattle
 >>
 >> -------------- Original message --------------
 >> From: Steve Raas <sraas@optonline.net>
 >>
 >>> In reading much of the discussion that has hit the BB lately in regards
 >>> to
 >>> antennas I figured Ide toss in my questions to the group.
 >>>
 >>> In trying to figure out which style antenna is going to suit my needs
 >>> best I
 >>> have a few questions.
 >>>
 >>> #1 Is a linear polarized antenna less efficient than a RHCP antenna 
when
 >>> trying to receive or transmit to a rhcp signal / receiver?
 >>>
 >>> #2 If yes.. in theory how much?
 >>>
 >>> #3 In looking @ pre-built helix options for 1.2g I have found the
 >>> DSH23-12
 >>> which is a 23 cm RHCP 12 turn helix 14.5 dBic gain in a machined radome
 >>> for
 >>> best weather protection. 1.2-1.3 GHz bandwidth. 50 ohm feed wit h N (f)
 >>> connector on 8" backplane. All stainless hardware; Designed for PHASE 
3D
 >>> uplink operation. Wide bandwidth actually covers from 900 - 1600 MHz (
 >>> copied verbatium from the www.directivesystems.com website. In looking
 >>> at
 >>> the specs of this helix, it seems it may not have the desired gain for
 >>> P3E
 >>> or others. In 'theroy' is it possible to make a 24 turn helix , and if
 >>> so
 >>> would I be correct in thinking that double the turns would provide at 
or
 >>> near 3.0 db of additional gain?
 >>>
 >>> #4 If yes to question 3 would this antenna be @ or near double the
 >>> physical
 >>> length?
 >>>
 >>> In a email I sent to Dave @ Directive he told me that the loopers he 
has
 >>> can
 >>> be arranged for vert/linear or horizontal polarization, so I do think
 >>> that a
 >>> looper although a great antenna may not be the best single antenna
 >>> solution
 >>> for 1.2 Uplin k.

 >>> Thoughts, Ideas & comments please.
 >>>
 >>> -Steve Raas

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