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Re: NCS for ISS/FM leo sat's

You've got to think outside the box.

>> Any emergency of priority traffic?
>> Anyone operating portable tonight?
>> Any W3's?  W4's?   etc.... call now...
>by the time the NCS gets done checking in all of 
>the above most of the people on the reserved 
>list is out of the foot print...and... mad at the
>above who ruined their chance for a contact.

THe un-collided single transmission may be the
only transmission they get time for.  But in my
mind, we need to define a valid check-in as
a validated contact with everyone else that
got checked in.  Very efficient... and we could
quadruple the success rate.

>a orginized net will only work if you have... time 
>to get "everyone" who is in the "foot print" 
>checked in and are able to pass it around.
>much like what was done with the 40+ beacon 
>net on AO-40

Need to think outside those boxes.  This isnt AO-40, 
and this isnt HF, it is a totally different animal.  I'm 
suggesting that we need to change our operating 
modus-operandi to match.  Let me say it again:

1) Passes may be reserved by anyone willing
to be netcontrol via an automated WEB based
system.  He may sign up for a given activity
topic, or event, or method of taking checkins.

2) A perfectly valid session may be to simply
enable DX chasing and grids (using the
abbreviated process above).  Nothign wrong
with that.  But it is just more efficient.

3) If a net-control does not appear then any
one can seize the opportunity and take over.

The objective of the net-control is to control
the flow by asking for a smaller subset of 
checkins at each transmission  to help limit
the collisions during each transmissions slot.

The overall objective is to improve efficiency
by matching the operating technique to the
limits of the resource.  ANd to present a better
side of Amateur Radio to those listening on
the ISS downlink.

de Wb4APR, Bob

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Robert Bruninga" <bruninga@usna.edu>
To: <bthomsen@bak.rr.com>
Cc: <amsat-bb@amsat.org>
Sent: Sunday, January 01, 2006 11:19 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] NCS for ISS/FM leo sat's

> >Well I have no regular Internet access  from May
>>to October, [nor any] phone in camp ground.
>>So under you plan I would have no way to work
>>the  birds.
> Not at all.  I think you missesd the whole idea.  My
> guess is that most of the passes will get reserved
> by net controls wanting to facilitate maximum
> participatin by others.  Such a directed net would
> go something like this:
> Any emergency of priotity traffic?
> Anyone operating portable tonight?
> ANy RV'ers or campers or other unusual stations?
> Any W3's?  W4's?   etc.... call now...
>>Half the fun of the birds is hearing a new call
>>working a new grid,
> Which I agree.  And having a big gun net-control
> operator who has signed up just for that purpose to
> let other people (by invited category) make contacts
> is what I figure will be the most popular passes.
> I think everyone is missunderstanding what I mean
> by directed-net.  ALl I mean is for one person to sign
> up to take charge of a given pass and to moderate
> it to facilitate the objective at hand.   There is nothing
> in anything that I have said that would discourage
> anyone from signing up to run passes whos sole
> objective is to continue with the status quo free-for
> all.  I would hope that many passes will continue to
> operate that way.  As many have noted, that is
> fun too. I'm only proposing a reservation system and one
> person "in charge" to make things go smoothly for
> whatever he signs up that pass to do.
>>this Idea will cause more problems than it will fix
> Yes, it will "squelch" the freedom of some operators
> to hit their PTT anytime they want and to step on
> and overpower others, but it could on the other hand
> make for a more useful and gentlemenly channel to
> be proud of.
> At 17:50 1/1/2006, you wrote:
>> >>> "Greg Wycoff" <<1/01/06 8:03 PM >>>
>> >Having a NCS for the ISS repeater or a FM satellite.
>> >What a stupid idea, ...give up the idea of grid square
>> >chasing or looking for that state they need for WAS,
>>I think you missunderstand the concept.  None of that
>>has to be given up.  If people want to chase grid squares,
>>just reserve as many passes as you want for grid
>>square chasing and operate the entire pass inviting rare
>>grids to check in.  In otherwords, no matter what activity
>>you want to do, reserve the bird for that purpose and
>>then you will be able to do *that activity* better and
>>more efficiently during *that* pass.
>> >or just the simple idea of saying hi to a friend.
>>If you want to say hi to  afriend, then reserve a pass
>>and then you can be sure he can get back to you and
>>won't be blocked by all the contention.
>> >we went thru all this when AO-51 first went active
>> >everyone said they could not work it and gave up
>> >and was mad at everyone that could.
>>Just think of it this way.  The reserved-directed-net
>>approach simply replaces the "contention" from the RF
>>uplink by moving the "contention"  over to the
>>"reservation list"...
>>There will still be contention, and debate and arguments
>>over what part of ham radio is better than what
>>other part, and who is doing what to whom, or who is
>>being fair, but at least that squabling is not done in
>>the blind by overload on the uplink.  It is done on
>>the web.
>>While the squabbling will continue (on the reservation
>>list) at least those that respect the directed-net
>>concept will have an efficient use of the transponder
>>for their 10 minutes of reserved activity.  I would
>>expect to see lots of special events... and grid chasing
>>and just about everything else.  AND you can plan
>>on it by checking the list to see what is the focus
>>of a given pass.
>>Or just listen and respond in kind when invited to
>>de Wb4APR, Bob
> ----
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