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RE: Crossband repeat on ISS



>>> "RANSOM, KENNETH G. (JSC-OC) (BAR)"
>it does seem to be a daunting task....
>ISS has 16 orbits around the Earth so now we 
>need 160 net controls who can perform their 
>duty 24/7 every day of the year...

I was not proposing that every pass had to have a
net control.  What I am proposing is that if a net-control
appears (because he has publically reserved a pass)
then the common usage we want to develop in the minds
of all users is the fundamental respect for directed net 
operation.

Having inculcated in all listeners the expectation that
someone will assume net-control, that in itself will lend
more order to operations.  On just about every pass
I listen too, someone is usually there with big guns
and could take a leadership role.  The problem is that
he doesnt, becuase under the current free-for-all
rules, if he did, he would be branded a big gun and
criticized.

Sure, some might take control for their own egos and
to monopolize the channel, but I epxect that to be
the exception.  More often than not, when I hear a
big gun, he is often using his power to make a hole
to let some others in.  That is all I am encouraging.

>Even if we scale this down to just the continental USA, 
>4 well placed net controls with "Big Gun" stations 
>would need to be ready to cover each of the
>9 daily passes of ISS that occur every day. 

On just about every pass, someone is there that
could take over (if a reservation does not exist).

>Next, the net controls will need to hand over the 
>stations that are still in their queue to the next 
>net control.

I dont see it as taking a huge list of checkins and
trying to make sure that each and everyone of them
gets to make a 2-way with each of the other N
stations.  That is impossible...  we need to redfine
what constitutes best use of the channel...

>Speaking of exchange, can we agree on what is 
>necessary to make the quick satellite QSO? Having 
>a standard on the FM birds might reduce the time that
>operators spend making lengthy exchanges and free 
>up time for other stations.

That is the key!  We need to recognize the geometry 
of a satellite QSO and recognize that everyone hears
everything (the repeater is full duplex) and so maybe
the definition of a QSO is that you can count everyone
you HEAR check in, if YOU also get checked in on that
same pass.  Done.  One transmission from each station
and without contention!

>Could we give this a dry run using SO-50 since it is 
>always in FM repeater mode? That would give the 
>net controls some practice time before being
>overwhelmed by the newbie masses trying for ISS.

I would suggest the opposite.  It will be too hard to
change how AO-51 works, but the ISS repeater is
under the full control of ARISS and ARISS has a
well known international objective to bring good will
and education to people around the world.  ARISS
also has a good organization.

Therefore, ARISS is in the best position to simply
declare it as the modus operandi whever the
FM repeater is activated.  If this new mode of
operations is widely published, then I think many
benefits would accrue.

1) Schools could reserve passes and get good
operating experience while waiting months to
get an astronaut contact.
2) ARISS teams and participants and creative
individuals could dream up lots of exciting special
events to schedule.
3) just so much we could do that we cannot do
now, because of the bedlam whenver the repeater
is enabled.  Because of the bedlam, no one would
dare try #2 because of the embarassment when
it fails due to contention and blockage.

Remember, this thread started about the ISS FM
repeater.  Although I think net-control style operation
is the way to go on all FM birds, human nature says
it will be opposed by a vocal number and we will
never see it happen on all FM transponders.  But I 
think the ISS is different.

Let the big guns and grid chasers fight with their
Watts and PTT's on AO-51... it is fun, no denying...,
but I think ARISS should encourage the directed
net reservatin system on the ISS FM repeater.
The ARISS system is highly visible and is our outreach
to non-hams.

Lets give them a clean organized downlinnk to
listen to.

de Wb4APR, BOb

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-AMSAT-BB@amsat.org 
To: Robert Bruninga
Cc: amsat-bb@amsat.org; morsesat@optonline.net 
Sent: 1/1/2006 5:26 PM
Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Crossband repeat on ISS

HAPPY NEW YEAR SATELLITE FOLKS!

I deleted the prior text on this topic but guess those interested have
been
reading along.

I do not have much to add to Bob's suggestion other than we should try
it!
The current Leo "free-for-all" is not working well, obviously!

I would point to the HF DX manager stations that "run a list".  i.e. a
strong Net station coordinates stations calling a rare DX station by
asking
for callers from different call zones, countries, states, whatever way
to
breakdown the number fo callers.  They then list the calls in order
received and give permission to call the DX station.  They work pretty
well
with everyone waiting their turn.

Leo Net Controls or ISS Net Controls can work out a procedure as well
(as
Bob explains).  I would guess that it would work on satellite when the
word
gets out.  Net needs to have "horse power" to overwhelm any "cowboys" or
"free soles" that wander on frequency.  We have enough seasoned
operators
with Big-Gun capability to act as Net Control.

One list might be that once you contact ISS you move to the end of the
list; that way more stations get a chance over time.

Since ISS only peeks above horizon for about ten minutes for Alaska and
less on the few other passes...chances to work ISS are far and few.
Since
I go to work daytime, the odds are nearly zero for me to work them.  The
good passes are about 0900-1100 utc in the middle of the night.  A NC
List
would work really good for me as I could schedule my attempt loosing
less
sleep!

Who will volunteer to be NC?  Someone needs to step forward to
coordinate
this.
Give it a Try!  
73's,
Ed - KL7UW 
===================================
BP40iq,  Nikiski, AK      http://www.qsl.net/al7eb 
Amsat #3212
Modes: V - U - L - S
===================================
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