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Re: Support for P3E and Eagle

I would like to take this opportunity to thank you for answering my questions,
explaining in detail the project planning, funding and resource requirements.
I would also like to thank you for your openness, and responsiveness.  Your
granular communication will go along way with me and I'm sure with others to
de-mystify the development process.  I look forward to supporting this
exciting project in addition to P3E.  I was just beginning to wonder when the
formal planning and milestones would be revealed, something I can sink my
teeth into.  In my occupation, I have to project (juggle) numerous projects
and there are the expectations that are required of me.

Once again, Many Thanks!

- Joe Westbrook, K7ZT
  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Jim Sanford
  To: k7zt@cox-internet.com
  Cc: Christensen, Eric ; Luc Leblanc "VE2DWE" ; Amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org
  Sent: Monday, October 25, 2004 7:21 PM
  Subject: Re: [amsat-bb] Support for P3E and Eagle

  Ladies & Gents:
  I am the Project Manager for Eagle.  I can partially answer some of your

  1.  Rough order of Magnitude total cost to BUILD Eagle is $600K.  This will
change,.  I hope it will go LOWER as a result of some of the innovation going
on -- like Software Defined Radios.  Launch costs are a separate issue; we're
exploring everything from free launch to a more likely launch costing in
excesss of $1M.  This is a wide range; we're just starting to explore this.

  2.  When do we need it:  RIGHT NOW we need about $60K.  A very preliminary
budget was presented to and approved by the BOD at Symposium.  As things are
refined, we'll adjust -- I'm ploanning a mid-year adjustment.  Why not more
precise?  - see below.

  3.  We're doing some things differently this time:
      a.  Team leads are developing their ACHIEVABLE schedules, to be
submitted to me for integration.  Once we know what's achievable, we'll start
looking in earnest for a launch.  If we have to adjust we will; objective is
to avoid the high-risk mad scramble to finish just to meet a launch date.  cf
Chuck Green's article in the Proceedings of this year's symposium.  He did
well and had fun, but made it clear that he doesn't want to do THAT again.
We're aiming to prevent that with PLANNING.
      b.  Team leads are developing refined budgets for mid-year adjustment.
      c.  Every aspect of the design will be subject to peer review before
proceeding.  That means before $$ (in all cases except pure research, of which
there will be some, and it WILL
  be justified.)  Double checking is always good, and we aim to prevent the
      d.  We intend to be open.  Only limitations will be non-disclosure
agreements required to obtain certasin technology (I know of none yet which
affect Eagle) and the AMSAT policy of intellectual property belonging to the
originator.  At this moment, I know of NO originator who does not intend to
make his intellectual property freely available.  Look for details on the
AMSAT web site as design is refined.  TBD is what will be available to all,
and what will be available to members only. The overall specification IS
ALREADY POSTED.  Go check it out, and check often -- I smell Revision 1 in the
      e.  We're exploring a wide range of launches.  More than I can possibly
remember to describe.  Just consider no stone to be unturned, and if you know
of one, LET US KNOW.
      f.  We will have a detailed interface specification.  Bill Tynan, W3XO
is leading that effort.  This will lead to a COMPLETE test plan, which will
allow more subsystem testing, and more complete testing by the integrators ==>

  4.  I believe in fighting rumors/inuendo etc with information.  See above
regarding our openness policy.  Please:  If you have a question, ask.  If you
hear a rumor, don't spread, ask.  I may not respond immediately (my day job
has me travel more than I'd like) but I WILL respond -- or get someone who
knows better than me to do so.  It is my stated intent that the only
unanswered question will be that which we don't yet know -- and I'll say so.

  5.  Contrary to one posting, there actually IS some sharing of effort
between Eagle and P3E.  The IHU, and Can-Do modules are common.  (See
Proceedings of  AMSAT Symposium.  Don't have?  Call Martha!)  P3E will go
first, which means we'll have lot's of experience ON THE SAME HARDWARE on
which to capitalize with Eagle.

  6.  At this moment, we believe it costs exactly $0.00 to build two of
everything -- which means Eagle "II" will be not far behind Eagle.  cf the
AMSAT vision statement for why this is important.

  Questions?  Send to me.

  Finally, we need RIGHT NOW, two things:
  1.  More people.  If you can help, let me know how, and I'll hook you up
with the team lead.  If you can only help with Peer Review, let me know, and
I'll add you to my list.
  2.  $$.  The anticipated expenses in the NEXT SIX MONTHS exceed what we have
available today.  If you're going to contribute, please do so now.  If you're
thinking about joining AMSAT, please do so now.

  Thanks for listening.

  Very 73,


  James A. Sanford, PE
  CAPT U. S. NAVY (retired)

  k7zt@cox-internet.com wrote:

My question is a simple one; How much $$$ and when does AMSAT-NA need the
money by.  I would expect to see some sort of project plan or milestone chart,
to define these thresholds, ie. money -vs- time.
- Joe

From: "Christensen, Eric" <CHRISTENSENE@mail.ecu.edu>
Date: 2004/10/22 Fri AM 10:10:18 CDT
To: <k7zt@cox-internet.com>,
	"Luc Leblanc \"VE2DWE\"" <luclebla@sorel-tracy.qc.ca>,
Subject: [amsat-bb] Support for P3E and Eagle

I think a valid point has been missed by all involved.  AMSAT-DL has not
asked for any assistance other than financial assistance for the P3E
project.  They have not asked for man-power that is currently being used
for the Eagle project and they have not asked for any parts or pieces.
They have that all worked out.  They have asked for some financial
assistance in which AMSAT-NA is currently working on setting up a
special fund to help P3E.

Now, the Eagle project is saying the same thing.  They have the people
in place and are currently working towards the end product.  They are
currently asking for financial support.  These two projects are not
sharing any resources that could be used on the other.

Here is the kicker.  These projects have projected launch windows that
need to be made.  If financial support for either doesn't happen, then
they will not be ready by the launch window dates and may have to wait a
SIGNIFICANTLY longer period of time to be launched which means that we
as the customers will not have the satellites up there to operate on.
So, if you want to loose out on having another HEO up in space, then
don't support Eagle or don't support P3E.  But, if you are like me and
want to have HEOs and LEOs up there, put your money where your mouth is
and support BOTH projects now.  Eagle cannot wait for funds just to have
P3E launched first.


Project OSCAR Member
AMSAT-NA Member: 35360
AMSAT Eastern North Carolina Area Coordinator
Sent via amsat-bb@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
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Sent via amsat-bb@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to Majordomo@amsat.org
Sent via amsat-bb@amsat.org. Opinions expressed are those of the author.
Not an AMSAT member? Join now to support the amateur satellite program!
To unsubscribe, send "unsubscribe amsat-bb" to Majordomo@amsat.org