Re: [amsat-bb] De-ORBIT issues, AMSAT, next steps...

[k0vty@xxxxxxxx]

Hi Larry and All

Question :  Could a space craft withing a space craft satisfy 
some of the notions surrounding De-Orbit studys early on?

Joe K0VTY
AMSAT # 860
===========================
On Mon, 02 Aug 2004 17:34:40 -0400 Larry Kayser <kayser@sympatico.ca>
writes:
> Bob McGwier wrote in part...
> 
> ....... Here is what I suggest. Identify one satellite that we 
> should go 
> and play tag with, I don't care which one. Then we can do an 
> analysis of 
> what the mission would entail in terms of guidance systems, orbit 
> determination systems, attitude control systems, and marry that in 
> at 
> least a think piece to the available launches. We might as well 
> limit 
> ourselves to a realistic launch. This will take a lot of fuel, etc 
> so we 
> probably would have to ride Dnepr as the only people likely left who 
> 
> would allow us to fly restartable motors since we would certainly 
> have 
> to do multiple Hohmann's and likely plane changes.
> 
> Wow Bob that list of effort for one purpose only is daunting enough 
> to 
> make the task a greater burden than AMSAT can handle at this time.  
> I 
> wonder if we might consider some alternatives of how to get started. 
>  
> Here are some ideas.
> 
> My thesis that AMSAT needs to generate some "public good" in the 
> best 
> economic sense can be assuaged in many ways.  When you were here I 
> offered the notion of outfitting a future AMSAT satellite to 
> possibly 
> get a picture of an errant or dead satellite as a demonstration of 
> capability.  During or after the demo of getting the picture the 
> satellite would revert to life doing some amateur radio functions.
> 
> There are alternatives that would get AMSAT started in creating 
> "public 
> good", AMSAT could first demo then produce in a quasi related 
> venture, 
> small de-orbit packages that could be attached to small satellites.  
> The 
> "public good" is created by triggering reentry to occur over a few 
> years 
> rather than hundreds or thousands of years. 
> 
> Extending on Cliff's idea might be to launch two small packages, 
> even 
> one as the target being just a dummy really with a led flashing on 
> each 
> of the six surfaces and photograph from the second satellite to see 
> how 
> far away we could track the first satellite.  If AMSAT was to do a 
> demonstration of capability towards the management of space junk, 
> this 
> might be enough to start attracting support to AMSAT for further 
> development work.
> 
> The trick is to get the first step into the work.  I well remember 
> the 
> late Don Stoner's (W6TNS) comments in an issue of CQ magazine in 
> words 
> to the effect "does anyone have a rocket to space ride for a small 2 
> 
> meter cw beacon" that resulted in, and not very long afterwards 
> really, 
> OSCAR 1.  We need to exploit something that AMSAT can get its hands 
> on 
> or get to use that creates super economic conditions for us - we 
> need to 
> use that resource to show that we as amateurs can create a leverage 
> to 
> huge economic value in being an active part of helping with the 
> issues 
> of space junk management.  Remember please that the launch of OSCAR 
> 1 
> had an economic value of many millions of dollars - it was probably 
> the 
> highest value launch todate. 
> 
> How about if AMSAT was to seek a relationship with say the Navy 
> Poste 
> Graduate School or the Naval Research Labs or some schools with 
> space 
> experience who would have access to the facilities to understand in 
> the 
> detail needed the space junk, pick a package and build a motor 
> system 
> and we would supply a frame, power supply, radios and computers.  I 
> suspect the whole project is beyond AMSAT resources at this time, we 
> 
> need someone to partner with while we learn more and build 
> relationships 
> and a knowledge base.
> 
> A direct answer to your question from my perspective is "How do we 
> find 
> a candidate target satellite (for a picture session) in an orbit 
> that 
> "guidance systems, orbit determination systems, attitude control 
> systems" complimented by "available launches" that minimizes "fuel, 
> etc" 
> and so that we could minimize the needs for AMSAT to "fly 
> restartable 
> motors" and again minimize the need "to do multiple Hohmann's and 
> likely 
> plane changes".  I have a sense that if someone came up on the BB 
> and 
> said they had done a study and satellite nn has been a concern for 
> launches of a type xx because it was so close to the transfer orbit 
> that 
> just maybe the situation would cause a significant level of 
> discussion, 
> positive discussion, discussion that might be the start of getting 
> something done.  The candidate "someone" is probably a Masters level 
> 
> student in Engineering with a Doctorate coming up in space science 
> and 
> doing a summer project somewhere with good data base access to 
> identified space junk.  An open hint to those in the AMSAT community 
> who 
> fund students like I used to do - reshape the words so it fits your 
> funding and have a go at it.  If anyone wants help with the wording 
> or 
> in any way I can help get in touch with me off this BB.
> 
> Bob, lets keep the discussion going, Cliff had a great idea - if we 
> keep 
> beating this thing something will come out of it and maybe on 
> AMSAT's 
> 45th birthday there will be a general public knowledge of AMSAT and 
> the 
> public good AMSAT creates with is work in managing space junk.
> 
> Larry Kayser
> VA3LK
> AMSAT Life Member #3
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