[amsat-bb] De-ORBIT issues, AMSAT, next steps...

[Larry Kayser <kayser@xxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Bob McGwier wrote in part...

....... Here is what I suggest. Identify one satellite that we should go 
and play tag with, I don't care which one. Then we can do an analysis of 
what the mission would entail in terms of guidance systems, orbit 
determination systems, attitude control systems, and marry that in at 
least a think piece to the available launches. We might as well limit 
ourselves to a realistic launch. This will take a lot of fuel, etc so we 
probably would have to ride Dnepr as the only people likely left who 
would allow us to fly restartable motors since we would certainly have 
to do multiple Hohmann's and likely plane changes.

Wow Bob that list of effort for one purpose only is daunting enough to 
make the task a greater burden than AMSAT can handle at this time.  I 
wonder if we might consider some alternatives of how to get started.  
Here are some ideas.

My thesis that AMSAT needs to generate some "public good" in the best 
economic sense can be assuaged in many ways.  When you were here I 
offered the notion of outfitting a future AMSAT satellite to possibly 
get a picture of an errant or dead satellite as a demonstration of 
capability.  During or after the demo of getting the picture the 
satellite would revert to life doing some amateur radio functions.

There are alternatives that would get AMSAT started in creating "public 
good", AMSAT could first demo then produce in a quasi related venture, 
small de-orbit packages that could be attached to small satellites.  The 
"public good" is created by triggering reentry to occur over a few years 
rather than hundreds or thousands of years. 

Extending on Cliff's idea might be to launch two small packages, even 
one as the target being just a dummy really with a led flashing on each 
of the six surfaces and photograph from the second satellite to see how 
far away we could track the first satellite.  If AMSAT was to do a 
demonstration of capability towards the management of space junk, this 
might be enough to start attracting support to AMSAT for further 
development work.

The trick is to get the first step into the work.  I well remember the 
late Don Stoner's (W6TNS) comments in an issue of CQ magazine in words 
to the effect "does anyone have a rocket to space ride for a small 2 
meter cw beacon" that resulted in, and not very long afterwards really, 
OSCAR 1.  We need to exploit something that AMSAT can get its hands on 
or get to use that creates super economic conditions for us - we need to 
use that resource to show that we as amateurs can create a leverage to 
huge economic value in being an active part of helping with the issues 
of space junk management.  Remember please that the launch of OSCAR 1 
had an economic value of many millions of dollars - it was probably the 
highest value launch todate. 

How about if AMSAT was to seek a relationship with say the Navy Poste 
Graduate School or the Naval Research Labs or some schools with space 
experience who would have access to the facilities to understand in the 
detail needed the space junk, pick a package and build a motor system 
and we would supply a frame, power supply, radios and computers.  I 
suspect the whole project is beyond AMSAT resources at this time, we 
need someone to partner with while we learn more and build relationships 
and a knowledge base.

A direct answer to your question from my perspective is "How do we find 
a candidate target satellite (for a picture session) in an orbit that 
"guidance systems, orbit determination systems, attitude control 
systems" complimented by "available launches" that minimizes "fuel, etc" 
and so that we could minimize the needs for AMSAT to "fly restartable 
motors" and again minimize the need "to do multiple Hohmann's and likely 
plane changes".  I have a sense that if someone came up on the BB and 
said they had done a study and satellite nn has been a concern for 
launches of a type xx because it was so close to the transfer orbit that 
just maybe the situation would cause a significant level of discussion, 
positive discussion, discussion that might be the start of getting 
something done.  The candidate "someone" is probably a Masters level 
student in Engineering with a Doctorate coming up in space science and 
doing a summer project somewhere with good data base access to 
identified space junk.  An open hint to those in the AMSAT community who 
fund students like I used to do - reshape the words so it fits your 
funding and have a go at it.  If anyone wants help with the wording or 
in any way I can help get in touch with me off this BB.

Bob, lets keep the discussion going, Cliff had a great idea - if we keep 
beating this thing something will come out of it and maybe on AMSAT's 
45th birthday there will be a general public knowledge of AMSAT and the 
public good AMSAT creates with is work in managing space junk.

Larry Kayser
VA3LK
AMSAT Life Member #3
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