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Re: RE: more cubesats

Well said Bob. I'm getting tired of this complaining. I work with the
Stensat group and we are building a cubesat kit for schools to buy. It
is not easy building a satellite and what the students learn is great.
It would be nice for some of the amsat folks to approach the schools and
provide guidance and technical support. Maybe with amsat support, some
of the students would join amsat and get involved and future cubesats
would be designed to provide transponder functions.

I see the cubesats that are considered bleep-sats to be a benefit. I am
working with a couple high schools and will be setting up a ground
station at each school to work with the amateur satellites. They don't
have enough money to build up a ground station to operate all the
satellites. They do have enough money for a simple receiving station to
collect telemetry data from the cubesats and any other satellite on 2m
or 70cm. The kids are already excited at the possibility of being able
to track satellites and collect data. Once they get that far, most will
want to communicate. Then you have new hams who are interested in
amateur satellites. The schools will slowly build up the station and
increase the stations capabilities.

I am working with a highschool to develop a two year satellite design
program using cubesats. Part of the curriculum will be obtaining a
technicians license. The plan is to try to complete a cubesat every two
years. The cost has to be low and the satellite will be sending
telemetry. They will use the Stensat cubesat kit which does have an FM
transponder capability built in. I would love to have amsat to support
this program but with this complaining and atittudes, I'm not sure if it
would be a good idea. I don't want to expose the kids to all this

I'm also putting together a satellite summer camp for highschool kids.
Part of the camp is to try and track satellites. I wish had more
bleep-sats running on FM so I the kids can see the telemetry being
decoded. The other part is to teach the kids how satellites work, how
they are built, etc.

I'm also running cansat programs with a couple highschools. Last school
year, two kids went and got ham tickets so they can transmit telemetry
from their cansat. They are now interested in amateur satellites.

I thought part of amateur radio was to educate people about radio
communications. The bleep-sats can provide plenty of education.


On Sun, 2003-06-29 at 21:46, Bob Bruninga wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Jun 2003, Keith N6ORS wrote:
> > ... we have allowed or encouraged educational instuitions and others to
> > use our bands in the hope of launching satellites that contained amateur
> > transponders. Somewhere along the line the transponders dissappeard..
> Sorry.  There are no facts to fully support that claim.  Other than UO-11
> and a few short lived (under a month or so) student satellites, I cannot
> think of any satellite that is using any consequential bandwidth that does
> not also have a transponder.
> > Most if not all satellites that have been being launched in the past
> > several years have been nothing more them 'Bleep' sats, in other words
> > they just send telemetery, most of which is useless to us.
> Who is us?
> Then maybe it is time to expand one's horizons a bit and think of some
> neat projects to study in that telemetry!  There are all kinds of studies
> we would like to get from PCsat's telemetry, and since it is all
> avaiable to anyone with an FM HT, anyone can participate:  such as
> 1) How well are the terrestrial solar panels holding up?  They cost us
> only 2 cents on the dollar compared to SPACE cells, yet give us 50% of the
> performance.  Other HAM satellites would benefit from that knowoldege.
> 2) Study the drift, or stablity of the transmitters and receivers
> (HAMtronics modules) that are CHEAP and could be used by others.  We put
> them in space, lets learn all we can about them.  They cost $170 compared
> to the nearest commercial quote of $120,000 for a space rated telemetry
> system.  Yet they are working fine 20 months later.
> 3) I could go on-and on...
> > We need more transponders and i for one
> > say if you have no transponder for us then dont use our frequencies.
> Wow, that sounds awfully selfish...
> > Now some of you will immediately whine and say " but this will get them
> > into hamradio and building sats!" . To which i say RUBBISH. I they want
> > to build sats they will anyway, and if they wanted to be hams they would
> > be by now.
> If they subscribe to AMSAT-BB and read all this BS, then I wouldnt blame
> them for not becoming a HAM.  Some of the most vocal "hams" though in the
> vast minority, are embarassing to the community by their pontification...
> > Maybe if amateurs started acting like professionals and
> > demanding transponders with frequency allocation instead of what we do
> > now which is acting like Beggars and hoping for something we would
> > command more respect and people would want to be one of us instead of
> > just nodding in our direction using our freqency allocations and blowing
> > us off.. i know that was a long sentence, but it needs to be said.
> OK, it was said, but I dont think it accomplishes anything.  In fact, it
> just adds to the negativism that turns so many people off to the spirit of
> HAM radio...    "Demanding"?  Wow, since when has that EVER accomplished
> anything in HAM radio?
> After 40 years in HAM radio, I have learned a few things very well:
> 1) Negativism accomlishes absolutely nothing.
> 2) Condeming others efforts accomplishes absolutely nothing.
> 3) COmplaining about what others do with HAM radio accomplishes nothing.
> 4) Trying to tell others what they should be doing with their time
>    accomplishes absolutely nothing.
> 5) Thiking up all the things that OTHERS should be doing for the hobby
>    accomplishes absolutely nothing.
> Now, what DOES acocomplish something in HAM radio?  I learned this from
> Paul RInaldo, W4RI back in in the 70's when I was in AMRAD and he was
> president (the organization that spearheaded the development of AX.25 and
> packet radio as we konw it today):
> 1) Hams work on what they want to work on.  It is the intellectual
> curiousity that drives them to do the things they do.  THey chose this
> "hobby" to DO something 'they' want to do, and NOT to do what someone else
> tells them to do (That is what WORK is for)...
> 2) Being in charge of a HAM project is like hearding cats.  You absolutely
> cannot push what is to be accomplished.  Pushing guarantess failure.
> 3) The best you can do is make sure that those people that ARE doing
> something are well fed (nurtured), and have the resources they need to
> make progress.
> 4) Other than that, GET OUT OF THE WAY.  One may be able to slightly steer
> them toward some worthwhile goals, but it is only by the most subtle and
> intellectually stimulating process.  IE, CARROTS to attract them in a
> given direction...  Beating on them from behind, or nipping at their
> ankles wont get  you at all what you want.  Except frustration and
> failure.
> I place the original post in the category of a detriment to progress, not
> in something stimulating others to a better future...
> de WB4APR@amsat.org, Bob
> ----
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