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Re: Re:Re: AO-40 Q&A

     it is obvious that you have made up your mind that it can ONLY BE
RADAR... in my first note I went out of  my way to make sure I did not
mention Rudak...

Like I said I don't know for sure what it is, I just find it very odd that
the radar interference has been gone for months this time and by coincidence
during the time when all the experiments are off...
things get turned on and guess what warble is back and 6db of missing signal
is back...
I saw in the telem that Rudak had been turned back on and the warble wasn't
there, but I also watched with a tnc and wisp and  the Rudak team had to try
a couple times to get it loaded, maybe it has to be loaded to cause the
problem??? you yourself point out that Rudak did not get turned on till the
9th,on  the first try they were unsuccessful at loading it, the second try I
believe there were partially successful but ran out of time,3rd try I do not
know how they did but since they don't have access every pass, it would have
been more than a week before it was reloaded,about the time when the warble

and I still wont swear its Rudak, but it looks suspicious...

Ground test data should be suspect considering we had an explosion on the
interior of the satellite, who really knows what is going on any more

I must say I find your questioning of the 6db loss on L2 as never being
there almost laughable... I never implied that you tweaked or changed
something.... but Danggit anyone who spends anytime on the sat at all has
seen a 6db difference between the two...it has been discussed many many
times on the bb...
many many stations have seen the 6db difference its been there for as long
as I have been on L, now it seems to be gone.... and to imply that it was
never missing... that is too much of a stretch....please do not insult the
intelligence of the people use the sat almost every pass.

fine there is no silence or lack of information, can you please tell me what
book I can buy, what website I can go to for detail information on the inner
workings of AO40? and I have no interest in command data what so ever but I
would like to see schematics of the L1 and the L2 receiver and of the i.f.
matrix, also is the rumor about no power to the TWT true? the amsat-dl
website still says more tests to do...
I'm not a big conspiracy fan... but I do know info is slow to come out...

   Back to the warble...want to prove this once and for all? power off rudak
then go a couple passes and see if the warble is gone,if it is you need to
rethink the radar option, if its still there I will need to rethink the
Rudak option, I realize its more work for the Rudak team , maybe everyone
would be willing to give up an entire pass to give  them more time to reload
it, if there is anything I could do to help them I would be more than
willing ...

So are we all going to work together to understand a phenomenon and get to
its root cause so it doesn't get repeated on the next sat?  if not then
speak up and say now that the warble is not an issue with you and you don't
care what's causing it  and that you don't want to discuss it anymore and I
will drop this... your call...


----- Original Message -----
From: "Stacey E. Mills" <w4sm@cstone.net>
To: "Amsat Bulletin Board" <amsat-bb@AMSAT.Org>
Sent: Tuesday, December 17, 2002 9:10 PM
Subject: [amsat-bb] Re:Re: AO-40 Q&A

> Kevin Schuchmann said:
> >  And I still would like to understand why Rudak causes this.. I would
> >like to understand what happened to the 6db drop on L2.
> Why are you so sure that RUDAK causes this?  RUDAK has been on since
> December 9th.   The problem only showed up within the last day or so.  The
> DSP modems are not on.  There has been no substantive change in RUDAK's
> function since it was turned on.  There clearly have been times in the
> when these phenomena occurred without RUDAK active. CEDEX was turned on
> last night, corresponding closely to the interference.  I cycled its power
> on/off tonight and there was no effect on the problem.  I have no
> information about the missing 6 dB on L2.  Perhaps it was never
> missing?  There are no manual adjustments available for L2
> sensitivity,  just ON/OFF.
> >But since detailed info on how AO40 works is very scarce, (mostly all you
> >can find is big picture theory of ops...) we the users have to turn to
> >designers or command stations for info...
> >
> >and getting info seems to be harder than pulling teeth...
> You have all the information that we have about this phenomenon.  I am
> completely unclear on what you think the builders/operators are
> from you.   I have given you every bit of information that I have on this
> phenomena before.  There are no ground test data to show RUDAK interfering
> with the L1 uplink.  For that matter, there are no ground test data to
> RUDAK and the middle beacon interfering with each other, yet this was
> clearly the case once we were in operation.
> >If the problem is understood but no one wants to tell the users, then its
> >time AMSAT rewrites its bylaws...
> You and I have had this discussion several times before, but you seem
> unwilling to accept the information that I have provided.  The "warble"
> closely correlates with the presence of RADAR-like "clicks" and
> corresponding problems in commanding.  When I saw the posts about the L1
> warble tonight, I immediately checked the commanding and sure enough, the
> RADAR-type "click" bit errors were back.  That is all I or anyone else
> understands about this problem.   As I believe I mentioned to you before,
> during another episode of this phenomenon we cycled the RUDAK power and
> there was no effect on this problem.   I suppose this could be tried
> but it means a LOT of extra work for the RUDAK team.
> AMSAT is you.   The telemetry is there.  Gather data on the warbles in
> whatever form you wish.  I can give you data regarding RADAR-like problems
> with commanding.   Present your findings here.   If there are reasonable
> experiments you believe should be tried, let's discuss them, but do not
> imply that there is a conspiracy of silence.  There is not.
> --
>   _______________________________________________________________________
>   Stacey E. Mills, W4SM    WWW:    http://www.cstone.net/~w4sm/ham1.html
>    Charlottesville, VA     PGP key: http://www.cstone.net/~w4sm/key
>   _______________________________________________________________________
> ----
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